David asks: “I’m concerned about an elderly and perhaps slightly naive relative, Violet. Can you advise as to the risks of this, or about any potential protective measures or what might potentially be “really” going on?”

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Q&A 61 – Is there something dodgy going on here? – Shownotes

David asks:

I’m concerned about an elderly and perhaps slightly naive relative, Violet.
Violet’s sister, Primrose, has had a new boyfriend and I’ve heard some indications he may be a bit dodgy, but nothing that strongly suggests he’s actually a scammer or criminal.

He and Violet have spoken by phone a few times but never met in person. About a week ago he and Primrose asked Violet, if he could transfer a “couple” of hundred pounds into her account for safekeeping, as he was concerned about his account being frozen (something related to debt and the sale of a house – explanation is unclear?).

Violet agreed, because she’ll do anything for Primrose. Now five hundred pounds has arrived in Violet’s account.

One obvious risk is that this is some sort of advance fee/reversed transaction fraud, but I’m more worried that Violet may be exposing herself to some sort of greater legal or financial liability if there’s something dodgier than expected going on.

Can you advise as to the risks of this, or about any potential protective measures or what might potentially be “really” going on?

 

Are You Right To Worry?

Thanks for your question David and it’s good to hear that you are concerned for your relatives. Most of the time, things like this will be genuine. However, it’s always good to be concerned and treat any request like this with caution.

My first question which would really peak my curiosity is why Primrose’s new boyfriend (who you suspect of being dodgy) needs to put the money in Violet’s account. If he does need to protect it from his account being frozen, why doesn’t he just take it out in cash, or use Violet’s account or another friend or relative? Alternatively, he could open another bank account which is under threat of being frozen and keep the cash there.

 

So, What Could Possibly Be Going On Here?

One common fraud in this area is that the money is transferred into Primrose’s account from a stolen card or using details of another unauthorised account. A couple of days later Primrose would transfer the money to Violet’s boyfriend’s account. Then, the bank will realise that the first transaction was fraudulent and therefore reverse the original transfer, leaving Primrose out of pocket with the transferred amount to Violet’s boyfriend being a legitimate transfer which the bank would not reverse.

In this scenario, it’s played out exactly how it would so far. There are a few things that Primrose could do to protect herself from this, without offending her sister and her boyfriend if the transfer is legitimate. If she speaks with her bank regarding her concerns, the bank could check that the transfer has come from an account belonging to John Smith, for example.

 

 

But Maybe There’s Another Answer

One small thing that doesn’t really seem to add up is the value of the transaction. Usually, when people perform this fraud, they do so for several hundreds or thousands of pounds. They can only do this once because once Primrose realises that the original transaction has been reversed, she will speak to Violet, the fraud will be uncovered and then the fraud cannot be repeated.

Another possibility is that this is money laundering and he is transferring the money out of one account through Primrose (because there’s not an obvious connection there, whereas there may be for Violet) and then back into another account of Violet’s boyfriend. This may make more sense given the value as he may try this “test” of £500 and if Primrose makes the transfer without kicking up a fuss, he’ll try it again with larger values.

It’s a tough situation as you are clearly worried about your relative and want to protect her. By raising your concerns here, you may worry or insult Violet and/or Primrose. Another method may be to speak to the police and just retell this story and provide the details of the individual to see if they can run any checks on his history without any other parties finding out. However, I’m not sure that this will be possible in reality.

 

My Advice

My advice would be just to mention to Primrose that you’ve heard about one of the two frauds above in the past and just recommend to her that she confirms with Violet’s boyfriend why he can’t just take out the money in cash, or store it in another account without using her account as a flow-through. It may be that he can, he is genuine and that he just hasn’t thought about it. Otherwise, some of his answers may lead to more suspicion which you can discuss through with Primrose before she makes the transfer on to Violet’s boyfriend’s account.

Hope that helps David and that there isn’t anything dodgy going on, but you are right to be careful in situations like this.

 

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